JUSTICE 101

The Shadow · Fri Jul 13, 2007 5:10 am Flashback

I guess you all know I never talk much about my time in the service but I just have to say something about this. I guess I should be very angry about this but I am not just a little sad. Times changes things. 43 years ago along with a lot of other young and fine Americans I went up into those highlands and met the Hmong people for the first time. It changed all of our lives, it ruined some of our lives and took the lives of still others. We went up there to tell them and teach them to do exactly what they tried 43 years later.Now they are being punished for what we taught them to do and what we told them to do. What a waste of so many lives and so much time. Is it any wonder that we seem untrustworthy to so many people. I am glad I don't have to face these people tomorrow becauseI wouldn't know what to say. I hope I am not bothering anyone with this and if I am I apologize. I just feel something needs to be said.

Hmong leaders charged in plot released By AARON DAVIS, Associated Press Writer
32 minutes ago

SACRAMENTO, Calif. - A U.S. magistrate ordered the alleged ringleader of a plot to overthrow the communist government of Laos released on bail Thursday, allowing him to return home under strict conditions.

U.S. Magistrate Dale Drozd also approved bail for seven other defendants, including the other central figure in the case, Harrison Jack, 60, a former Army Ranger accused of acting as a middle man between the Hmong leaders and a presumed arms dealer who was really an undercover federal agent.

Drozd put off bail hearings for three other defendants until Friday. But after more than seven hours of arguments Thursday, he appeared poised to release all 11 of the men accused in the plot.

The ruling followed a dramatic morning in court in which two of the 11 men accused in the plot were hospitalized as their attorneys argued they should be freed while they await trial.

Drozd's decision will confine former Laotian Gen. Vang Pao, 77, to his southern California home and allow him to see only his family, doctors and attorneys. Pao is considered the leader of Hmong who emigrated to America after the Vietnam War. He appeared in court in a wheelchair after being hospitalized for chest pains last month.

His home and those of four other family members and friends valued at a total of $1.5 million will be offered as bond. Drozd said that if the defendant violates any condition of his release, all five could lose their homes.

Jack, of Woodland; Youa True Vang, 60, of Sanger; Lo Cha Thao, 34, of Clovis; Dang Vang, 48, of Fresno; Lo Thao 53, of Sacramento; Chue Lo, 59, of Stockton and Seng Vue, 68, of Fresno were all ordered released under similar terms.

In all, families and friends of the eight men combined put up nearly 30 homes, an apartment complex, and a family trust valued at a $7.5 million.

The remaining three defendants — Hue Vang, 39, and Chong Yang Thao, 53, of Fresno and Nhia Kao Vang, 48, of Rancho Cordova — are expected to be granted bail on Friday.

A crowd of about 1,000 Hmong gathered outside the federal courthouse erupted in applause and cheers after Drozd's decision was announced, throwing confetti and squirting water.

Federal prosecutors argued that all 11 defendants are dangerous and likely to flee if they are freed on bail during what could be a yearslong court battle.

Earlier in the day, U.S. District Judge Frank C. Damrell Jr. ordered Drozd to hold individual hearings to reconsider whether the accused could be released under any circumstances. Magistrates previously ruled that all 11 should remain jailed.

Defendant Seng Vue, 68, of Fresno, fainted in the courtroom during Damrell's hearing and was taken by ambulance to UC Davis Medical Center in Sacramento. He suffered a stroke three weeks ago while in custody, his attorney said.

A co-defendant, Chong Yang Thao, 53, also of Fresno, was taken to the same hospital earlier Thursday after he suffered a stroke, said his lawyer, Dina Santos. He was awaiting testing to determine the severity of the stroke, she said.

The men face a possible sentences of life in prison if they are convicted. They're charged with conspiring to violate the Neutrality Act, along with other conspiracy and weapons charges.

They are accused of plotting to buy nearly $10 million worth of machine guns, anti-aircraft missiles, rocket-propelled grenades, mines and other weapons to overthrow the Laotian government.

Before Drozd issued his ruling, defense attorneys and prosecutors sparred for three hours over whether the men are inherently too dangerous to be released.

John Keker, an attorney for Vang Pao, said the alleged plotters were only hoping to defend the Hmong against Laotian soldiers trying to exterminate them. The men never intended to overthrow the Laotian government, Keker said.

Keker also argued that the CIA at least tacitly approved of the operation, that the idea to purchase missiles was suggested by the federal agent.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Robert Twiss said such exchanges were not leading because they backed the agent's cover story. He also denied that anyone from the CIA ever met with the defendants.

"We know it was not a CIA-backed operation," he said. Any allegation that it was is completely false."S. District Judge Frank C. Damrell Jr. ordered Drozd to hold individual hearings to reconsider whether the accused could be released under any circumstances. Magistrates previously ruled that all 11 should remain jailed.

Defendant Seng Vue, 68, of Fresno, fainted in the courtroom during Damrell's hearing and was taken by ambulance to UC Davis Medical Center in Sacramento. He suffered a stroke three weeks ago while in custody, his attorney said.

A co-defendant, Chong Yang Thao, 53, also of Fresno, was taken to the same hospital earlier Thursday after he suffered a stroke, said his lawyer, Dina Santos. He was awaiting testing to determine the severity of the stroke, she said.

The men face a possible sentences of life in prison if they are convicted. They're charged with conspiring to violate the Neutrality Act, along with other conspiracy and weapons charges.

They are accused of plotting to buy nearly $10 million worth of machine guns, anti-aircraft missiles, rocket-propelled grenades, mines and other weapons to overthrow the Laotian government.

Before Drozd issued his ruling, defense attorneys and prosecutors sparred for three hours over whether the men are inherently too dangerous to be released.

John Keker, an attorney for Vang Pao, said the alleged plotters were only hoping to defend the Hmong against Laotian soldiers trying to exterminate them. The men never intended to overthrow the Laotian government, Keker said.

Keker also argued that the CIA at least tacitly approved of the operation, that the idea to purchase missiles was suggested by the federal agent.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Robert Twiss said such exchanges were not leading because they backed the agent's cover story. He also denied that anyone from the CIA ever met with the defendants.

"We know it was not a CIA-backed operation," he said. Any allegation that it was is completely false."

Beth · Fri Jul 13, 2007 7:37 pm

It amazes me that we have any credibility anymore. I have never understood why the Kurds ever trusted us again after what we did to them in Iraq. We do this sort of thing all the time. And why? Policy change. What ever happened to "My word is my bond"? It hardly matters whether or not there was CIA involvement. We are ultimately responsible for this incident. It amazes me how we blame ourselves for the wrong things and then refuse to account for things we are to blame for.

This is just tragic all the way around. You're not bothering me with this. I feel the same way you do. It's a slap in our face as soldiers and sailors when this sort of thing happens. They give us a mission, tell us it's the right thing and then years down the road tell us it's a crime. Only we are free and those people whom we helped are either abandoned, in jail or dead. I'm afraid honor, integrity, and commitment have no place in our society anymore.

And Shadow, this is the place for you to say what needs to be said. This is the place. You may not be angry, but you sure do have a right to be.

The Shadow · Fri Jul 13, 2007 8:21 pm

Last night I was home alone. I thought it would be good for me to relax with my own thoughts since we have had such a time for the past 4 months. After I read this I started thinking about the past remembering people I haven't seen for many years and some who I will never see again. I didn't sleep a wink. I guess that's the least I could do, right?

Beth · Fri Jul 13, 2007 8:35 pm

Yeah, I guess it is.

My grandfather laid a wreath at the tomb of the unknown soldier. I think it did something for him. Gave him some peace. I think as soldiers we all come to a point where we have that time of trying reconcile things. Most certainly those who actually served during war. I am sure I will have it one day. I'm not sure what the key to making peace with it is though. I think it's different for everyone. I do know that talking about your experiences; making sure that their known is part of it.