JUSTICE 101

homerskid · Mon Jul 02, 2007 12:56 pm Radical Islam

Here are two very scary (IMO) videos.

They are from a CNN Special that I caught part of yesterday.

The first is an interview with a lawyer/radical in England.
This guy admits he does not believe in democracy,does not want to assimilate into society,and believes Shariah law will someday rule England,Europe and eventially the entire world.

Punishment of lopping off hands ,executions,and stonings are coming.

It does not say it here,but he,in the special,states that they will cause that to happen via political means,Jihad,or any means necessary.
So it seems that the goal is to flood other countries with Muslims,and to force conversion to Islam.

The second video shows a debate between moderate and radical Muslims in Ireland.

This will show you the thug like,blood thirsty nature of our enemy.

They are convinced they are doing Allahs will.

http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2007/01/17/the.war.within.shariah.cnn

http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2007/01/17/the.war.within.the.debate.cnn

The Shadow · Mon Jul 02, 2007 10:39 pm

I watched it. That program was on before.It's a rerun I think from last fall.

Here's my idea. Let them have Shiria law but with the conditions that they use it only within their own group and if the enforcement of Shiria law breaks the law of the land they must pay for it if they are caught. If you kill people or try to stone them then you must expect the full force of the law and for murder in most states that's the death penalty. Those who disagree with the conditions may go to any country they wish that practices Shiria law. My reasoning is that if you live here you must like it. So it only follows that if you like it here then you have no trouble following the laws of the United States or what ever country you are in.

Gypsies in the US practice their own law within their commuity knowing full well that if they break the law of the land enforcing Gypsy law they will have to pay the piper. If one group can do it then others can to. Muslims are no better and no worse than Gypsies. We are all equal under the law.

homerskid · Mon Jul 02, 2007 11:10 pm

I thought this an interesting article.

It explains the radical manipulation of the religion.

http://www.rightwingnews.com/

Former Radical Islamist: It's the Religion, Stupid
Hassan Butt, writing at the Daily Mail, says it isn't the foreign policy of Western nations that causes terrorism; it's the Islamic religion:

And though many British extremists are angered by the deaths of fellow Muslim across the world, what drove me and many others to plot acts of extreme terror within Britain and abroad was a sense that we were fighting for the creation of a revolutionary worldwide Islamic state that would dispense Islamic justice.

If we were interested in justice, you may ask, how did this continuing violence come to be the means of promoting such a (flawed) Utopian goal?

How do Islamic radicals justify such terror in the name of their religion?

There isn't enough room to outline everything here, but the foundation of extremist reasoning rests upon a model of the world in which you are either a believer or an infidel.

Formal Islamic theology, unlike Christian theology, does not allow for the separation of state and religion: they are considered to be one and the same.

For centuries, the reasoning of Islamic jurists has set down rules of interaction between Dar ul-Islam (the Land of Islam) and Dar ul-Kufr (the Land of Unbelief) to cover almost every matter of trade, peace and war.

But what radicals and extremists do is to take this two steps further. Their first step has been to argue that, since there is no pure Islamic state, the whole world must be Dar ul-Kufr (The Land of Unbelief).

Step two: since Islam must declare war on unbelief, they have declared war upon the whole world.

Along with many of my former peers, I was taught by Pakistani and British radical preachers that this reclassification of the globe as a Land of War (Dar ul-Harb) allows any Muslim to destroy the sanctity of the five rights that every human is granted under Islam: life, wealth, land, mind and belief.

John Edwards and the rest of those who are deluding themselves that the war on terror is just a bumper sticker slogan need to take the time and carefully read what this man has said. Unfortunately, Mr. Butt has put himself in grave danger as those who still are waging war against the rest of the world are not going to be happy with his piece today.

homerskid · Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:20 pm

Many people say we must not believe the religion is at fault,we must be tolerant.

They say:

Many many people who practice this religion do not strap bombs to their chests.

....................................................................................................

After seeing the latest reports about 45 Doctors and health care workers plotting,and even posting on the internet about terrorist attacks in Europe and the U.S.A. .

I say thats true,however, they also do not speak out against,protest against or publicly condemn those who do.

They also,many of them, know who the so called "bad Muslims",living among us are,but refuse to turn them in.

They refuse to aid infidels such as us against other Muslims no matter what.

Until I see some improvement in that area,I am forced to not trust any of them.

The Shadow · Fri Jul 06, 2007 1:31 pm

More and more i am agreeing with that stance. I don't think it's intolerance. I think it's reality. I these people don't trust me then why should I trust them. I have to interpret their lack of trust as the idea that they wish ill on me.

We are being soft on these people. Look at Spain. The Basque political party HB refused to recognize ETA as a terrorist organization and overtly supported their violence. The Spanish congress revoked HB's charter as a political party and they are banned from political activity until they recognize ETA as a terrorist organization and until they openly denounce ETAs use of violence. We can't do something similar to those who act like HB here?

However I heard a comment yesterday that we need to think about. "Islam is a religion, radical Islam is an ideology." That statement deserves some thought IMO.

Beth · Fri Jul 06, 2007 8:29 pm

I think we are forgetting something here. My problem with Islam goes beyond it's terrorism affiliations and it's refusal assimilate to modernity.

My problem is it's blatent abuse and repression of women. It is bewildering to me how this is just swept under the rug. Nobody will speak about it and when they do, it's labeled as a "cultural problem". But since the religion itself dictates that there is no separation of spirituality and culture, one has to conclude that it is rooted in the religion.

My parents didn't understand why I was intolerant of Islam until I asked them some very important questions: "How can you tolerate a religion that would have murdered your daughter and your grandson while he was still in her womb for no other reason than she was not married at the time of her pregnancy? How can you tolerate a religion that would have murdered me simply because I chose not be married and to live my life as an assertive, independent woman? How can you tolerate a religion that would have murdered your step-daughter because she wasn't heterosexual and was overtly athletic? Well, at least you would still have had your son. I guess that would make up for everything."

I have been trying to tell people that the goal of Islam is world domination. There is no question of this. I know I don't want my nephews living under this terrible way of life (if you can even call it life). I have always said that freedom is the birth right of all human beings. It is like oxygen and NO person has the right to steal it from another. I won't live that way. They will have to kill me because I will never submit myself to their will. I will never were a hijab or burka. I will never shame myself by entombing my body.

It systematically weakens men and oppresses and murders half of the social brainpan. This is why I do not tolerate Islam. Any religion can create a terrorist. Islam creates suffering, oppression and death.

Stefan · Sat Jul 07, 2007 5:16 pm

Here's an idea. Why not deport every conservative Christian and Muslim to some area, like Antarctica, and let them fight to death while the rest of the world, atheists and moderate/liberal believers live in peace? Wouldn't that be nice?

Beth · Sun Jul 08, 2007 2:13 am

Not really, because then I'd be surrounded by only their inane elitist babble. If I am going to live in this crazy society, I want a wide range of crazy to choose from. Not your pre-selected, dictated, committee-approved brand of crazy.

Nice try with the censorship though. There is big difference between what you are trying do with your little argument and what the rest of us are talking about and you know it. If you are trying to challenge my thought process towards Islam, you are a day late and a dollar short. I have already gone over this.

And if you think for a second that Liberals are peaceful, you need to have your head examined. Liberals have the most violent political activists in the entire country. For every conservative act of violence, I can give you at least 50-100 liberal acts of violence. I hate to burst your bubble on that Stefan, but that's just the truth here in America. Liberals are really angry people over here. Even my parents have become really nasty. I think my sister has chilled somewhat, but my parents have gone off the deep end.

Stefan · Sun Jul 08, 2007 10:31 am

You're right, Beth. There is a difference. You're the ones living in a bubble and it's so airtight that you won't see reason. So why argue against it on this little board? Makes no difference. I thought I'd hit you with the Antarctica idea instead. Nevermind. I also prefer a society with all kinds of people, beliefs and ideology, but that's not what you were preaching.

Liberals in your country have every reason to be angry. That's fine, as long as they don't commit violent acts.

Stefan · Sun Jul 08, 2007 11:02 am

By the way. You're wrong about something again and I should clarify. When I talked about liberals and conservatives in that Antarctica post, I was in fact talking about religion, not ideology. I do in fact dare you to point at something moderate/liberal Christians and Muslims have done that is as bad as the things conservative Christians and Muslims do. Go ahead. I like diversity, but a lot of suffering in this world is caused by religious conservatives.

Beth · Sun Jul 08, 2007 11:08 am

So it's reasonable to stone a woman to death over honor? It's reasonable to set her on fire and burn her alive when she is no longer useful? It's reasonable to deny a person education and basic rights because of her sex? I mean is that what you are talking about? Because that's the conversation I have been having. You want to tell me I'm living in a bubble because I simple refuse to believe that those conditions in a religion are acceptable? Ok, fine. I live in a bubble.

I don't know what you are talking about as far as liberals having every reason to be angry. Especially when it is politicians and spin doctors and journalists who have created this massive divide between the people. It's a phony political war Stefan. A Wag the Dog. A diversion. People don't actually have real reasons to be angry. They are told they should be angry (on both sides) and like sheep, they follow.

And yes, many liberals are violent Stef. You are not here. I am. I went to a rally in Austin several years ago, to support my fellow troops in Iraq. I simply held a sign stating "Support the Troops". A reporter tried to interview me. I explained that I was a service member and that I preferred not to give a statement, but that I could refer him to my command if he liked. He told the anti-war protestors who I was and they tried to kill me by pushing me and a paraplegic man into on-coming traffic. Luckily a cop grabbed for us and the car that almost hit us swerved out of the way just in time. When this happened, I pulled the young man back onto me. His wheelchair rolled over my legs and tore flesh all the way down to the bone.

Your beloved liberals were laughing. Now the cop that ran out into the street to try and save us wasn't. He wanted to arrest every last one of them. Even after, while they were sopping up the blood from my legs, these "peaceful" protestors still cursed at me and spat on the ground. I had never been so ashamed of the people that I serve. Until I saw footage of protestors throwing rocks and garbage and screaming "fuck you" at an Iraqi war veteran who was an amputee. They're violent alright. The news just won't report it.

Beth · Sun Jul 08, 2007 11:12 am

Stefan wrote: By the way. You're wrong about something again and I should clarify. When I talked about liberals and conservatives in that Antarctica post, I was in fact talking about religion, not ideology. I do in fact dare you to point at something moderate/liberal Christians and Muslims have done that is as bad as the things conservative Christians and Muslims do. Go ahead. I like diversity, but a lot of suffering in this world is caused by religious conservatives.

We're talking about radicals and extremists not conservatives. What the hell are you talking about?

Beth · Sun Jul 08, 2007 11:20 am

Actually Stefan, reading back over your last few posts, I don't understand what you are talking about. We are talking about radical Islam. I said that I am against it because of the human rights violations against women. And that's where we left it. So what are you talking about? What is this bubble you are referring to and what am I being unreasonable about? Your posts aren't making any sense to me.

Stefan · Sun Jul 08, 2007 1:21 pm

Beth. You were not talking about radical Islam. You were talking about Islam as a whole. You made no difference. I hope you do, but judging from your post that I replied to, you don't. You were rallying against the whole religion, not only its radical followers.

As for politics, you were the one who brought it up by talking about liberals in general. I was referring to moderate believers, the kind of people, Republicans and Democrats, who go to church occasionally, or their mosque, and believe in their god. I wasn't talking about liberals from an ideological standpoint. You misunderstood me and has continued to present me with examples of violent liberals. That was not what I asked for. I was merely pointing out that moderate/liberal church/mosque/synagogue-goers don't start wars or go after people who are gay or have abortions. Fundamentalists do. OK? You misunderstood me from the start and I hope we've cleared that out.

As for radical Islam, I need no lecture about its evil. But that's not what you were talking about in your first post. You expressed your hatred of the entire religion there, which is why I jumped in. But, fine, if you forgot to add "radical" in front of "Islam", so be it.

homerskid · Sun Jul 08, 2007 2:37 pm

The line between moderate and radical Islam is becoming more blurred everyday,because the moderates refuse to openly condemn what the radicals agenda is.

That agenda is to convert everyone to Islam,to execute those who refuse,and have Shariah law rule the entire world.